Porting to Windows

Discussion topics, Linux related - not requests for help

Moderators: ChrisThornett, LXF moderators

Porting to Windows

Postby andychannelle » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:08 am

There has been some discussion recently about the ethics of porting Linux applications to Windows. Do you think this is a good, or bad thing? And is there a point - for example, porting large portions of KDE to Windows - when things have gone too far?

Andy
andychannelle
LXF regular
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:08 pm

RE: Porting to Windows

Postby linuxgirlie » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:34 am

I can understand items such as OpenOffice and Gimp being able to be used on Windows, where I work it has been a very important step towards full Linux client computers, as its not the desktop that the users are worried about its the applications.

On the other hand I don't see the point of porting something such as KDE to Windows.
My knowledge comes with no warranty...........

Server operating system designed for schools:http://www.linuxschools.com
linuxgirlie
LXF regular
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:34 pm
Location: Kent...UK

Postby davecs » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:51 am

:twisted: How about porting a cut down version of KDE for windows which gives a taste and wants people coming for more! Which they won't get unless they switch to Linux or a Unix-based system!

On the other hand, Linux is getting easier to install, and if everyone's favourite software runs on both, and people realise that Windows and Linux are just operating systems, then why get the one you have to pay an exhoritant price for?

I must admit that I don't see the point of KDE for Windows, but as it is GPL software if it can be done within the GPL, I can't find a reason to object to it.
User avatar
davecs
LXF regular
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:13 pm
Location: Dagenham, Essex

Postby fingers99 » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:57 pm

I can't see any problems with it: after all, it's simply a better Desktop than the Windows shell. Once you've used a Open Source application as your desktop, using an Open Source OS can't be far away ;-)
fingers99
LXF regular
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:15 pm

Postby jjmac » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:11 pm

How does that impat on the existing "openess" of the code base. Will there be secret kde libraries as a result now. I always thought kde's config files seemed to have a certain MS feel about the, but then, i am a bit of a cynic. Was this an idea of Troll Techs all along. Windows isn't intending to do the right thing and open up by any chance(silly-question.png), or are they going to expect all the compiance to come from the kde end. Do they deserve kde.

jm.
http://counter.li.org
#313537

The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
But it's ok, 'cause i've got a spare ...
jjmac
LXF regular
 
Posts: 1996
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Andy » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:29 pm

That's an interesting one.

I've long held the view that if I can get a user to use OpenOffice.org for Windows then I am half way there to converting them to open source.

However, porting KDE to Windows would be a bit like porting the Mac OS X Aqua interface to Windows - utterly pointless! At the moment the default desktop for a lot of people is still either Win9X/ME/2000 or XP. Why change that un-necessarily? There wouldn't be a lot of incentive for people to switch to a KDE based desktop over a 'classic' Windows desktop.

As for software such as WindowBlinds - I've never really had much to say about window modding software for Windows - I really don't see the point in dressing mutton as lamb. After all, underneath any dressing is MIcrosoft technology which is still unstable and prone to malware.

Any, just my tuppence.

AndyH
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:29 pm
Location: Trowbridge

Postby andychannelle » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:44 pm

It's quite interesting that there is a possibility that the first real competition for something like Outlook on Windows is going to come from Novell's Evolution (currently being ported by Tor Lillqvist, the man behind GIMP for Windows) rather than another native-Windows developer. I've also seen screenshots of Beagle running on Windows (it's a mono app after all) which potentially covers the same ground as Microsoft's Longhorn search thing and also Spotlight on OS-X.

How do you convert people to OS (if convert is the right word)? I've installed FireFox on every PC of ever person who would let me, but that's probably only about 10 computers. Any success stories?

AndyC
andychannelle
LXF regular
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:08 pm

Postby Andy » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:02 pm

And I think that this is where the real wins will be made for open source - moving people across to open source applications on Windows.

At a church not so long ago I was able to move them onto OpenOffice.org to replace Microsoft Office that was available on just one PC. Now they have it installed on several PCs.

A mixture of Mozilla Firefox, Thunderbird and Mozilla Suite are installed at work as standard.

How do you convert people to OS (if convert is the right word)? I've installed FireFox on every PC of ever person who would let me, but that's probably only about 10 computers. Any success stories?


I don't think that we necessarily will have to 'convert' everyone to Linux. In a realistic world Windows has its place, and I am sure that there are things that Windows does very well and Linux does not as well and vice versa.

One of the joys of Open Source is the choice that it gives you. Considering that Windows is shipped with almost every desktop PC I think we should be encouraging application choice on the Windows platform, as well as platform choice.

I'm looking forward to Evolution being available on Windows - perhaps that may encourage more workers to use Evolution instead of Outlook. I can only hope that email servers such as Exchange and Oracle Collaboration Server carry on allowing access.

Feel free to flame me if necessary, but that is my opinion. :)

AndyH
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:29 pm
Location: Trowbridge

Postby towy71 » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:10 pm

I encourage everyone I know to move to firefox and thunderbird and have done it on about 30 computers so far, hope to win more people over with Open Office and all the goodies on www.theopencd.org
Dick
still looking for that door into summer
User avatar
towy71
Moderator
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: wild West Wales

Postby nordle » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:58 pm

IMHO porting kde / _insert_large_desktop_environment_here is totally pointless, a waste of developers time. If a windows user wants to try KDE, boot a live CD.

I agree with Andy in thinking that converting people at an application level is more important, if its right for them of course.
People using OOo, firefox, t-bird, apache, php, mysql, postgresql etc these are all good things introducing people to the idea of another way, and more importantly avoiding vendor lock-in at and application level and keeping open standards, which again helps to avoid vendor lock-in because it increases the demand for open standards itself.
User avatar
nordle
LXF regular
 
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:56 pm

Postby hairymunky » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:16 pm

Well I think it would be pointless to port a Linux based window manager such as KDE or GNOME to the Windows platform. I think it would not intice any new users to the Linux OS, but instead users would probably think "Why have all the hassle of installing a new OS, figuring out how to get hardware working" etc, when they can just run it on their windows box! Apart from the obvious thing Windows already has a Window Manager...

I'm all for cross platform development, but it seems a bit one sided, when programs designed and built with Linux, are also usually available for Windows, but its not often the case with applications designed from a Windows point of view.

What would really make my day, is to walk into WH Smiths, or GAME, or any other high street store, and be able to choose commercial games, that were designed for Linux, without having to rely on middleware (Wine, Cedega etc). Maybe one day, this will happen as more and more people come home to Linux as their favoured Operating System.
Until then I won't hold my breath .... just in case
User avatar
hairymunky
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:50 pm

Postby Andy » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:25 pm

What would really make my day, is to walk into WH Smiths, or GAME, or any other high street store, and be able to choose commercial games, that were designed for Linux, without having to rely on middleware (Wine, Cedega etc). Maybe one day, this will happen as more and more people come home to Linux as their favoured Operating System.
Until then I won't hold my breath .... just in case


Well, don't forget that Unreal Tournament 2004 ships with Linux support out of the box.

Doom3 requires the install discs for the Windows version - you then download the Linux bits from idSoftware themselves.

Admittedly these are few and far between, but it is better than nothing to have two great FPS games available for Linux.

AndyH
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:29 pm
Location: Trowbridge

Postby andychannelle » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:18 am

I think its important that if you buy UT2004, Doom 3 and especially software you intend to use with WINE you ought to let the developers know. For example Macromedia (or Macrodobe - if they've been infected by Mandriva disease) assisted with the CrossOver implementation of DreamweaverMX because it allowed them to test the water for Linux without porting the entire application. In order to go further they need to know their efforts are appreciated (in the financial sense).

The problem is, though, that they might see this as 'doing enough', especially as DWMX runs better under Linux than under WinXP.
andychannelle
LXF regular
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:08 pm

Postby linuxgirlie » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:14 am

Success stories, well both my parents and my partners parents run linux on thier home PCs. My work place is running Linux servers, with Firefox, Gimp and Openoffice on the clients (W2K), in May Half Term we will be rid of Microsoft office completly. Thats about 200 desktops and about 100 laptops. Our future plans are to move to an entire linux desktop. My partners school is around the same place as us but has over 400 computers. I have several students that now run Mandrake at home, and about 20 more that run Firefox. We also, because of the Karoshi project have around 9 schools running Linux servers and firefox/openoffice etc on the clients.

At home, we have 3 computers, 1 server, 1 firewall and 3 laptops which all run linux, I personally haven't had windows on my home computer for over 3 years now....

I think my main problem will be getting the trust of the staff when converting!!
My knowledge comes with no warranty...........

Server operating system designed for schools:http://www.linuxschools.com
linuxgirlie
LXF regular
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:34 pm
Location: Kent...UK

Postby doctorflange » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:42 am

Making KDE etc. available from Windows does detract from the attraction of using linux.

Which would most people rather use?

* Windows, where they can use their normal programs, and great open source software, or
* Linux, where they can use only the open source software?

So if depends on whether you want OSS to benefit people or to take a swipe at M$.
Image
Signature license here. Background by Michele Valentinuz. Source.
User avatar
doctorflange
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:46 pm
Location: Anniesland, Glasgow

Next

Return to Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests