Does the BBC think we are (electric) sheep?

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Postby M-Saunders » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:00 pm

ollie wrote:Why not tax the actual products capable of receiving the signals - you already have VAT, why not TVDT (Television Device Tax) when the TVs are purchased?


I don't watch TV, but I will probably buy a few TVs throughout my life to hook up my old consoles and computers. That system would force me to pay for something I don't use.

It's bad enough that you're forced to give your address when buying a TV. How lucky that I happen to live at 1 King Road, London then eh!

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Postby Rhakios » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:05 pm

M-Saunders wrote:1 King


Hmm, yes, probably all that porn...


;)
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Postby heiowge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:14 pm

The number of TVs / Videos / DVD players bought by Mr M Mouse at Disneyland is unbelievable... :lol:
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Postby ollie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:16 pm

nelz wrote:Because you can still only watch one programme at a time, no matter how many TVs you own.


But there are 3 TVs going in my house at the moment - me and my two teenage daughters watching different shows. There's still another couple not turned on at the moment.

M-Saunders wrote:I don't watch TV, but I will probably buy a few TVs throughout my life to hook up my old consoles and computers. That system would force me to pay for something I don't use.


But you have purchased TV signal devices - if you don't want to receive TV signals buy PC monitors with HDMI input for your consoles. Older consoles can be connected with cheap converters RCA composite to VGA. A monitor would also be cheaper because it wouldn't have the TV tuning hardware.
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Postby M-Saunders » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:58 pm

ollie wrote:But you have purchased TV signal devices - if you don't want to receive TV signals buy PC monitors with HDMI input for your consoles. Older consoles can be connected with cheap converters RCA composite to VGA.


RCA? My NES and Spectrum +2 only have RF cables sticking out of them! :-)

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Postby towy71 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:08 pm

nelz wrote:That's essentially what happens, the licence fee is just another tax that goes into the pot to pay for everything, like road tax.
Not quite nelz, the money goes to the BBC via http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/ all of this is covered by a myriad of legislation: Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967, Communications Act 2003, The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 although the current government are proposing that some of the money should be hived off to pay for Channel 4 and S4C so making the whole thing even more of a dogs breakfast :roll:
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Postby AndyBaxman » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:23 pm

nelz wrote:That's essentially what happens, the licence fee is just another tax that goes into the pot to pay for everything, like road tax.


Not quite. All of the TV licence fee goes to the BBC.

This puts the BBC in a very particular position with regards to how they restrict access to their services.
I, as a TV licence fee payer, have, along with others, jointly paid for the iPlayer service. I have no choice in this.

For the BBC then to deliberately block access to a service I have paid for, merely because of my choice of receiving equipment is completely unacceptable.

If a PayTV (e.g. Sky) provider did this, then the user could cancel their subscription. As a licence fee payer I have no such option. I have to keep paying the BBC, irrespective of how they screw me around. This makes their action with regard to Android iPlayer clients doubly unacceptable.

The fact that it was probably licence money that paid for the legal fees with regard to shutting down BeebPlayer and MyPlayer makes this triply unacceptable.

The BBC needs a bloody sharp kick up the ass. They should top pissing licence money up the wall and use it to produce quality programming and distribute to using open and free standards.

The way the BBC is funded demands this. If they want to use Flash. If they want to use closed standards. If they want to favour Apple. Fine.

But it shouldn't be funded by the TV Licence.
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Postby M-Saunders » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:33 pm

AndyBaxman wrote:They should top pissing licence money up the wall


Agreed. It's been a while since I've seen any live BBC TV, but surely they could save heaps of money by ditching the ridiculous program intro slots, which always seem to depict elaborate dancers in foreign countries riding on elephants in the mountains and all sorts of other fluff. Why not a static screen and some voice saying "And now Foo episode 5"?

Any why does every damn news programme have to have two presenters, standing up and wandering around? Give me one serious-looking person, sat at a desk, and fire the rest of them.

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Postby Bazza » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:34 pm

Hi Mikey...

> RCA? My NES and Spectrum +2 only have RF cables sticking out of them! :)

Didn`t the +2 have an RGB socket?

If you ask me nicely I have just the knacker of a, (12" IIRC), colour monitor for that format.

Nicked, ERM, aquired it from a commercial games console.

Made a hideous wooden cabinet for it, but I was cool as I had a real monitor for my Speccy... [cool/smart ass smiley here]

I feel bloody old now... :(
73...

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Postby Bazza » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:40 pm

Hi Mikey...

> Why not a static screen and some voice saying "And now Foo episode 5"?

Would that not lower the Bar? ;oD

Baz...

:D
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Postby pastychomper » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:54 am

AndyBaxman wrote:If a PayTV (e.g. Sky) provider did this, then the user could cancel their subscription. As a licence fee payer I have no such option. I have to keep paying the BBC, irrespective of how they screw me around.


That's not true, I stopped paying the BBC years ago when I decided I wasn't getting value for money. Since then I had more money for DVDs and, better still, the TV Mafia^H^H^H^H^Hlicensing authority stopped sending me a threatening letter every year. Afair their form letter for not needing a licence was fairly polite.

Oddly, while many licence fee payers are prevented from using iPlayer, non-payers who use Flash can use it for free. I wonder if Adobe pays the Beeb for this advertising... :lol:
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Postby ollie » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:58 am

M-Saunders wrote:RCA? My NES and Spectrum +2 only have RF cables sticking out of them! :-)

M


So you get a converter for RF to VGA + Audio - there are quite a few of these boxes available online :P

As a "foreigner" there are some really strange implementations of tax regulations in the UK. The TV Licence Fee is one and the other one I find strange is road registration and insurance requirements. We see this on "shows" like Road Patrol and I can't understand how difficult they have made this.

We have registration fees and Compulsory Third Party insurance for the vehicle, which covers other people's injuries. You must have CTP to register your car. There is also comprehensive insurance which covers damage caused by your vehicle to other vehicles or property and may also include your vehicle for theft, damage, etc. You don't have to have comprehensive insurance but you or the driver is responsible for covering this damage. This makes registration easy - no CTP = no rego, so you have to pay for this before you can register your vehicle. If you sell the vehicle, the CTP goes with that vehicle. It greatly reduces the number of unregistered vehicles on the road.

Back on topic (in the off topic section :wink: ), if the BBC is making it impossible for you to view content you have paid a license fee for then you have the basis for a class action. Challenge them in the courts because you are being discriminated against just because you choose to not use operating systems developed by US based companies.
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Postby guy » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:53 pm

nelz wrote:
guy wrote:"4. BBC content may only be distributed for consumption within the UK;"
- Fancy that. I never realised 'til now that .co.uk electrons fall into the sea at Dover. You learn something new every day.


To be fair, this isn't specifically the BBC's fault. They licence content for the UK market so would be in reach of the terms if they allowed that contents to be broadcast elsewhere. It's particularly annoying when the main time you want to use iPlayer is because you're abroad and can't get BBC any other way... but that's why we have VPNs.


Gosh, how dumb of me. I knew that electrons obeyed the laws of physics, I never realised they obeyed licensing laws as well - I suppose radio wave photons must too. Still, as you say, I guess the BBC didn't realise it either - Parliament must have had to explain it to them.
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Postby nelz » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:55 pm

So you can pick up BBC broadcasts around the world? Fringe areas don't count because they are unavoidable.
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Postby guy » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:49 pm

nelz wrote:So you can pick up BBC broadcasts around the world?

Long and medium wave radio are pretty good at skipping around under the ionosphere. All you need is a good aerial and some patience while the weather sorts itself.

I'll bet that around Calais I could pick up the TV and stuff leaking across from Dover, too. Don't know how far inland it might reach.

Fringe areas don't count because they are unavoidable.

Does that mean that the entire overseas part of the tinterweb is a fringe area? Even Queen Victoria wasn't quite that jingostic about foreign lands.
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