Am I a Linux traitor?

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby towy71 » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:53 pm

Nigel wrote:If we're really lucky the Rover metaphor will be taken to the same conclusion as the car firm ;)

hear hear, can't come a moment too soon :wink:
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:46 pm

Well, if it makes you feel better, I am an MS traitor.

I have to use MS and OSX at work, as well as a RH server and Suse desktops - I support a very mixed network.
At home, I have a dual boot system, but the last time I booted into windows, there were 42 updates to download, and I ended up rebooting into Suse in frustration.

My wife and I use Suse, KDE desktop, and it does everything we need.

As for the Jag metaphor, I drive a company car, an X-type, and it's crap compared to the Citroen C5 it replaced, in terms of comfort, features, space, design, performance and reliability, it sucks in comparison, and it cost 3 grand more.

At the moment it belches bl;ack smoke, does less thasn 37 MPG, stutters at certain speeds, and the EGR valve it requires has been on back order for a month. It has broken down twice in 18 months and 30000 miles, while the C5 broke down once (the clutch wore out at 95000) in 4 years and 100000 miles.

Yet the Jaguar marque is seen as a guarantee of quality- go figure.
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby A-Wing » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Isn't the X-Type just a Ford Mondeo with Jag exterior/interior? My Dad just bought one of the old RBS stock ones which he seems to like.
I have an 05 Corsa CDTi, get over 60MPG from it, I have only done 20,000 miles in its first year but no problems so far (unlike my old Citroen C3 that had engine computer problems). Having it serviced next week so I am bound to be told something is falling off! :)

Anyway, waay off topic now :)
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby GMorgan » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:20 pm

I'm not sure about the analogies. On a purely hardware basis I always thought of your standard beige box as being a factory car with something like a modern Sunblade Workstation being the executive car. Then Macs fall somewhere slightly above the factory car offering little more than extra polish and claiming to be great while really just being over priced kind of like Rover.

Really Macs don't fall into either bracket and dangle in a non market. There aren't many people who'd pay 20% more purely on asthetics for what is essentially a tool.

I spoke to a Mac user in Uni the other day and he asked me why I didn't buy a Mac given my expenditure on beige boxes over the years. I pointed out that if I go for a Mac I may as well go all the way and get an Ultra but that I'm perfectly happy getting the same hardware as a Mac at 80% of the price. Not worried if its beige, white, black or even pink with yellow polka dot coloured.

I do own an iPod though.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby Rhakios » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:38 pm

GMorgan wrote:I do own an iPod though.


Fashion victim! :twisted:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby A-Wing » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:12 am

GMorgan wrote:I'm not sure about the analogies. On a purely hardware basis I always thought of your standard beige box as being a factory car with something like a modern Sunblade Workstation being the executive car. Then Macs fall somewhere slightly above the factory car offering little more than extra polish and claiming to be great while really just being over priced kind of like Rover.


I don't know about nowadays but when I bought my iBook it was the same price as the equivlent build of branded PC laptop. You can't really compare it to the average laptop, anyone who has taken an iBook apart knows that it is built as strong as an IBM/Levano. When I choose this I choose between an IBM (the only other PC laptop I would buy is Panasonic and I'm not forking out that much) and this. To be honest I choose this over the IBM because I knew this would impress clients more, which it does. My bigger clients are very Mac orientated so they are plesently surprised to see a Linux consultant using one :)
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby GMorgan » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:05 am

Rhakios wrote:
GMorgan wrote:I do own an iPod though.


Fashion victim! :twisted:


I intend on installing rockbox on it so it looks properly hacked together.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby Steogede » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:55 am

A-Wing wrote:To be honest I choose this over the IBM because I knew this would impress clients more, which it does. My bigger clients are very Mac orientated so they are plesently surprised to see a Linux consultant using one :)


What would your clients reaction be if you installed Linux on it? :shock:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby A-Wing » Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:19 am

Steogede wrote:What would your clients reaction be if you installed Linux on it? :shock:


I don't know, I'd tell you if I could find a distro that supported all the hardware without hours of modification.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby nelz » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:26 pm

Steogede wrote:What would your clients reaction be if you installed Linux on it? :shock:


Mine are impressed :)
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby nelz » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:29 pm

A-Wing wrote:I don't know, I'd tell you if I could find a distro that supported all the hardware without hours of modification.


The only hardware I can't get to work on Linux is the modem, which I never use anyway. Mine doesn't have Bluetooth, so I can't comment on that, except to say that the Bluetooth dongles I've tried have "just worked"[tm].

Wireless was an issue, but the drivers have been in the kernel for months now, and available as a separate module since the end of last year.
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby A-Wing » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:49 pm

Wireless drivers are around for it but last time I tried were pretty unstable, I was lucky to get 2MBytes of data out of it. The USB trackpad in the last version of the G4 iBooks doesn't work properly in Linux, needs a special driver (not synaptics) that wasn't around last time I tried. No 3D support. And no propritory modules such as flash and WMV support (although they will be fine in Intel based Macs).
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby Steogede » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:55 pm

A-Wing wrote:I don't know, I'd tell you if I could find a distro that supported all the hardware without hours of modification.


Well I suppose that is the very reason you bought a Mac in the first place.

nelz wrote:The only hardware I can't get to work on Linux is the modem, which I never use anyway. Mine doesn't have Bluetooth, so I can't comment on that, except to say that the Bluetooth dongles I've tried have "just worked"[tm].

Wireless was an issue, but the drivers have been in the kernel for months now, and available as a separate module since the end of last year.


Did the wireless install out-of-the-box? Only reason I ask is that I have an HP laptop with a BCM4319, which I belive is similar to the Apple AirPort and it has never been 'easy' to install; nor have I ever got it working 64-bit.

A-Wing, regarding your original question. I reckon your a traitor unless you spend an average of 2 hour a month trying to get Linux installed and working your Mac (say 12 hours for every six month release of Ubuntu, or 72 hours for every release of Debian) :lol:

All the best with your Mac BTW, I think my next laptop might well be a Mac.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby A-Wing » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:00 pm

Steogede wrote:Did the wireless install out-of-the-box? Only reason I ask is that I have an HP laptop with a BCM4319, which I belive is similar to the Apple AirPort and it has never been 'easy' to install; nor have I ever got it working 64-bit.


I believe its a BCM4319 in this lappy, if not a similar model number, as stated above I didn't get it to work properly in any flavour of Linux.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Am I a Linux traitor?

Postby nelz » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:06 pm

A-Wing wrote:Wireless drivers are around for it but last time I tried were pretty unstable, I was lucky to get 2MBytes of data out of it.


I have the 4306 chip and it works fine. Early drivers were a little finicky about associating with the AP, often needing several tries, but that's not such a problem with the 2.6.18 kernel.

A-Wing wrote:The USB trackpad in the last version of the G4 iBooks doesn't work properly in Linux, needs a special driver (not synaptics) that wasn't around last time I tried.


Mine's not the latest (no Bluetooth) and the trackpad works with protocol set to auto.

A-Wing wrote:And no propritory modules such as flash and WMV support (although they will be fine in Intel based Macs).


True, but that's not because of hardware, it's down to the formats using proprietary code which Adobe et al won't release for PPC Linux. There are similar problems using flash on my Athlon64 desktop, although it is possible to work around them to run 32 bit code in that case.

I bought the iBook because it is small, light and has excellent battery life, it was less expensive than an x86 laptop of comparable quality and spec
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