Something I never quite understood....

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Something I never quite

Postby jjmac » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:19 pm

guy wrote:
>>
The BSD license is a great license. What sucks is the commercial world it has to survive in.
>>

Why do you think that !
Not allowing people who do use it to claim authorship is really just mandatory, but not requiring code visibility and not overriding additional licences, such as those that are designed to obscue visibility ... lends itself, very easily, to promoting a perception that the code does originate from a subsequent party. An awful lot of people do actually think, that the likes of MS did think of it first. And perception, unfortunately, is the game that sells. People don't really dig in to find the headers.

>>
Big business can be part of the open source community if it wants. Who else is going to feed us? ... RedHat anyone....
>>

Not saying they can't. But i think it is understood what i'm getting at there :)

>>
Who else is going to feed us?
>>

Sounds like the modern world to me ......


jm
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Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
But it's ok, 'cause i've got a spare ...
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RE: Something I never qu

Postby guy » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:31 pm

jjmac wrote:guy wrote:
>>The BSD license is a great license. What sucks is the commercial world it has to survive in.

Why do you think that !
Not allowing people who do use it to claim authorship is really just mandatory, but not requiring code visibility and not overriding additional licences, such as those that are designed to obscue visibility ... lends itself, very easily, to promoting a perception that the code does originate from a subsequent party. An awful lot of people do actually think, that the likes of MS did think of it first. And perception, unfortunately, is the game that sells.

Well, I'm not over-fussed if my name doen't appear on the front page. Self-promotion, or "the game that sells" as you put it, is not what BSD is about either. The ethics of giving stuff away and just letting go are higher than the GPL's copyleft restrictions. By recognising its existence, the GPL pays homage to the world of sucky IP and business laws that it has chosen to do battle with. BSD quietly sets an example to us all. That's cool.

(Hey, I'm not dissing the GPL - we need both - just defending BSD).

>>Big business can be part of the open source community if it wants. Who else is going to feed us? ... RedHat anyone....

Not saying they can't. But i think it is understood what i'm getting at there

Maybe, but I think it's equally understood that I disagree. What makes Novell unsavoury just because they bought their way in to the party? They also brought lunch for a lot of free software geeks with them. I'm not interested in their criminal record. They're here now, on our team, making us stronger. And that's what matters.
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Guy
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Something I never quite

Postby jbennet » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:30 pm

yeah i dont like either the gpl or bsd i like the LGPL
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Something I never quite

Postby jjmac » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:34 am

guy wrote:

>>
Well, I'm not over-fussed if my name doen't appear on the front page. Self-promotion, or "the game that sells" as you put it, is not what BSD is about either.
>>

True, but whether or not, the average person ... like my brother who has no real interest in anything tech, or anything electronic, and certainly not any related social/political implementations ... he's interested in maintaining his well paid social position, with all its' lurks. The only reason he bought a computer(s) was due to badgering from his kids (goaded on by me :)).

He believes a company like MS is 'probably' well with in their rights to claim exclusive ownership of technologies. Reason being, after all, they 'invented/created/made' it. The idea that they took public domain concepts and then possessed them is quite shocking to him. He thinks, if that was true hmmmm, then, how can they do that ???, there fore it can't be really true. The BSD licence has the loop hole that allows for that abuse.

My basic point is that a licence like BSDs' works if everyone else works with the same spirit that the licence expresses. But ... people don't, and there is its' problem.


>>
The ethics of giving stuff away and just letting go are higher than the GPL's copyleft restrictions
>>

I can't agree there. The BSD is a bit naive in that respect, it assumes people will do the right thing and work with the spirit of the licence. The GPL isn't paying any homage, it is just facing the sad realities. It accepts that human nature, as it consistently displays itself, simply wont do that. So it sees the need to close that hole. Hard love maybe, a restriction, yes, ... but there isn't any other way to effect that really. And it only becomes as such if the person has a view to manipulating that aspect. To work on the perceptions. Companies have shown that open source is a beneficial business input. It allows hw developers to get products out quicker and with greater diversity. And contra wise, it allows OS developers to provide the necessary support, quicker. It's probably the only thing that has kept the kernel independant of any one particular interest group. And they do all constantly try to leverage things to suite their own interests. Just like my old dog, who used to scoff his food down in an instinctive flash. So that no other critter could get to it first. Thinking he might then starve. A degree of doubt existed there somewhere ...

>>
(Hey, I'm not dissing the GPL - we need both - just defending BSD).
>>

(grin) :), i know (grin)


>>
I'm not interested in their criminal record. They're here now, on our team, making us stronger. And that's what matters.
>>

There've been doing really badly with their 'netware' line too, i hear :wink:
Time will tell, just like 4 year olds, never turn your back for to long. Lets not ignore the need for monitoring.


An old foot soldiers saying ...

When being charged by overwhelming odds, and your standing firm, as many have split, and others have fell. And they get closer and closer ... when there really close, turn around quickly and run in the same direction, yelling the same yell ...

(grin), Not really an old saying, as i just made that up :)


jm
http://counter.li.org
#313537

The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
But it's ok, 'cause i've got a spare ...
jjmac
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